The moment ZNC (which can technically be considered a framework) starts abiding by one country's laws, it must start abiding by all of them. You can then run into legal hell, conflicting laws, conflicting rules, etc.
If it is requested to have a specific law be followed, then those who use ZNC can modify it to listen to that law. I don't think that ZNC should change its functionality just to conform to the EU law, when there would be no law in the US or other regions (as an example).
:-1:
The moment ZNC (which can technically be considered a framework) starts abiding by one country's laws, it must start abiding by all of them. You can then run into legal hell, conflicting laws, conflicting rules, etc.
If it is requested to have a specific law be followed, then those who use ZNC can modify it to listen to that law. I don't think that ZNC should change its functionality just to conform to the EU law, when there would be no law in the US or other regions (as an example).
<!-- github-comment-id:112836772 -->
2015-06-17 17:46:49+0300 < ZNC-Linker> [znc] Mikaela opened issue #976: Webadmin breaks The Cookie Law http://git.io/vLlJV
2015-06-17 17:47:04+0300 < Mikaela> there it is and if someone dies to laugh I am going to blame you
2015-06-17 17:51:18+0300 < DoctorD90> >.>
2015-06-17 17:51:23+0300 < DoctorD90> is not my fault xD
2015-06-17 17:51:48+0300 * Mikaela blames you anyway
2015-06-17 17:52:25+0300 * Nothing4You blames stupidity
2015-06-17 17:52:59+0300 < DoctorD90> ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm
2015-06-17 17:53:13+0300 < DoctorD90> this is the first link i have found out
2015-06-17 17:53:16+0300 < DoctorD90> in english
2015-06-17 17:42:15+0300 < DoctorD90> so, it require "just" a "popup" or a line that warn about that :D
2015-06-17 17:42:37+0300 < Mikaela> but as the line isn't there the law is broken
2015-06-17 17:42:49+0300 < DoctorD90> yep :P
2015-06-17 17:43:22+0300 < DoctorD90> but, not being shared cookie, people hasnt to pay 150€ to use them :D just "warn" the user :D
2015-06-17 17:44:10+0300 < Mikaela> there have been fines in spain
2015-06-17 17:44:28+0300 < DoctorD90> spain is under EU law :P
2015-06-17 17:46:49+0300 < ZNC-Linker> [znc] Mikaela opened issue #976: Webadmin breaks The Cookie Law http://git.io/vLlJV
2015-06-17 17:47:04+0300 < Mikaela> there it is and if someone dies to laugh I am going to blame you
2015-06-17 17:51:18+0300 < DoctorD90> >.>
2015-06-17 17:51:23+0300 < DoctorD90> is not my fault xD
2015-06-17 17:51:48+0300 * Mikaela blames you anyway
2015-06-17 17:52:25+0300 * Nothing4You blames stupidity
2015-06-17 17:52:59+0300 < DoctorD90> ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm
2015-06-17 17:53:13+0300 < DoctorD90> this is the first link i have found out
2015-06-17 17:53:16+0300 < DoctorD90> in english
2015-06-17 17:53:55+0300 < Mikaela> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directive_on_Privacy_and_Electronic_Communications#Cookies
2015-06-17 17:56:12+0300 < DoctorD90> this? The regime so set-up can be described as opt-in, effectively meaning that the consumer must give his or her consent before cookies or any other form of data is stored in their browser.
2015-06-17 17:59:05+0300 < t3chguy> Webadmin sends a cookie with the first request
2015-06-17 17:59:20+0300 < t3chguy> I think so anyway
2015-06-17 17:59:25+0300 < t3chguy> from past testing
2015-06-17 18:02:24+0300 < Nothing4You> hard to comply with that law when using frameworks
2015-06-17 18:03:42+0300 < teward> DoctorD90: consider: if you try and comply with all laws with what is quite literally just a framework, you get conflicting laws and other hell.
2015-06-17 18:03:57+0300 < teward> DoctorD90: ZNC is just a framework - you are permitted to modify it yourself and apply the laws of Country X into it
2015-06-17 18:04:11+0300 < teward> but that doesn't mean that ZNC has to conform as a framework itself to every law in existence
2015-06-17 18:04:36+0300 < DoctorD90> nono teward :D sorry my misunderstod xD
2015-06-17 18:04:40+0300 < teward> As well this only applies to the EU
2015-06-17 18:05:23+0300 < teward> so in the US, we don't need it. In Russia you probably wouldn't need it. Other countries may have laws that conflict with the "Cookie Law", and others
2015-06-17 18:05:48+0300 < DoctorD90> i understand, infact i asked how to add a popup :D i have just suggested, due to entity of law (all EU, not just 1 town), that maybe should be good add an "easy" popup or similar :D but this was just a tip! :D sorry!
2015-06-17 18:05:58+0300 < teward> you can thank Mikaela for my waking up on this - the github issue opening caught my attention
2015-06-17 18:06:59+0300 < DoctorD90> yea, but being an entire community, (EU) maybe is possible (i dont know eh!) add a line in config to make a popup telling about using of cookie :)
2015-06-17 18:07:05+0300 < DoctorD90> but, this was just a tip :D
2015-06-17 18:07:40+0300 < DoctorD90> because i have "some" little skill, and i may add a simple popup. Other people may not have them, and they dont use your great software :)
2015-06-17 18:08:26+0300 < teward> indeed
2015-06-17 18:08:43+0300 < teward> DoctorD90: note I made a comment on the issue that Mikaela opened on this, #976. Because I can, and I like voicing opinions
2015-06-17 18:08:43+0300 < ZNC-Linker> https://github.com/znc/znc/issues/976 “Webadmin breaks The Cookie Law” (open)
2015-06-17 18:09:13+0300 < DoctorD90> eh...im learning github xD ...but im going to read it :D
2015-06-17 18:10:51+0300 < DoctorD90> btw, it requires just a simple popup :P nothing more :D ...i havent heared about "warning of cookie usage is agains the law" in any country :P
2015-06-17 18:11:47+0300 < DoctorD90> so if with 1 popup may "come back" legal in a community, and not in a single country, maybe it may be good :D or better...this is my way of thinking :)
2015-06-17 18:12:24+0300 < DoctorD90> Mikaela may you get out DoctorD90 from issue, and puts github account directly?
2015-06-17 18:12:41+0300 < DoctorD90> (yes i have created it many times ago xD)
2015-06-17 18:12:57+0300 < Mikaela> DoctorD90: if you tell me what is your github account
2015-06-17 18:13:28+0300 < DoctorD90> <<<<
2015-06-17 18:13:36+0300 < Mikaela> ok
2015-06-17 18:13:39+0300 < DoctorD90> i copy you :D https://github.com/DoctorD90
2015-06-17 18:13:50+0300 < DoctorD90> i have remembered pass :D
Logs:
```
2015-06-17 17:46:49+0300 < ZNC-Linker> [znc] Mikaela opened issue #976: Webadmin breaks The Cookie Law http://git.io/vLlJV
2015-06-17 17:47:04+0300 < Mikaela> there it is and if someone dies to laugh I am going to blame you
2015-06-17 17:51:18+0300 < DoctorD90> >.>
2015-06-17 17:51:23+0300 < DoctorD90> is not my fault xD
2015-06-17 17:51:48+0300 * Mikaela blames you anyway
2015-06-17 17:52:25+0300 * Nothing4You blames stupidity
2015-06-17 17:52:59+0300 < DoctorD90> ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm
2015-06-17 17:53:13+0300 < DoctorD90> this is the first link i have found out
2015-06-17 17:53:16+0300 < DoctorD90> in english
2015-06-17 17:42:15+0300 < DoctorD90> so, it require "just" a "popup" or a line that warn about that :D
2015-06-17 17:42:37+0300 < Mikaela> but as the line isn't there the law is broken
2015-06-17 17:42:49+0300 < DoctorD90> yep :P
2015-06-17 17:43:22+0300 < DoctorD90> but, not being shared cookie, people hasnt to pay 150€ to use them :D just "warn" the user :D
2015-06-17 17:44:10+0300 < Mikaela> there have been fines in spain
2015-06-17 17:44:28+0300 < DoctorD90> spain is under EU law :P
2015-06-17 17:46:49+0300 < ZNC-Linker> [znc] Mikaela opened issue #976: Webadmin breaks The Cookie Law http://git.io/vLlJV
2015-06-17 17:47:04+0300 < Mikaela> there it is and if someone dies to laugh I am going to blame you
2015-06-17 17:51:18+0300 < DoctorD90> >.>
2015-06-17 17:51:23+0300 < DoctorD90> is not my fault xD
2015-06-17 17:51:48+0300 * Mikaela blames you anyway
2015-06-17 17:52:25+0300 * Nothing4You blames stupidity
2015-06-17 17:52:59+0300 < DoctorD90> ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm
2015-06-17 17:53:13+0300 < DoctorD90> this is the first link i have found out
2015-06-17 17:53:16+0300 < DoctorD90> in english
2015-06-17 17:53:55+0300 < Mikaela> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directive_on_Privacy_and_Electronic_Communications#Cookies
2015-06-17 17:56:12+0300 < DoctorD90> this? The regime so set-up can be described as opt-in, effectively meaning that the consumer must give his or her consent before cookies or any other form of data is stored in their browser.
2015-06-17 17:59:05+0300 < t3chguy> Webadmin sends a cookie with the first request
2015-06-17 17:59:20+0300 < t3chguy> I think so anyway
2015-06-17 17:59:25+0300 < t3chguy> from past testing
2015-06-17 18:02:24+0300 < Nothing4You> hard to comply with that law when using frameworks
2015-06-17 18:03:42+0300 < teward> DoctorD90: consider: if you try and comply with all laws with what is quite literally just a framework, you get conflicting laws and other hell.
2015-06-17 18:03:57+0300 < teward> DoctorD90: ZNC is just a framework - you are permitted to modify it yourself and apply the laws of Country X into it
2015-06-17 18:04:11+0300 < teward> but that doesn't mean that ZNC has to conform as a framework itself to every law in existence
2015-06-17 18:04:36+0300 < DoctorD90> nono teward :D sorry my misunderstod xD
2015-06-17 18:04:40+0300 < teward> As well this only applies to the EU
2015-06-17 18:05:23+0300 < teward> so in the US, we don't need it. In Russia you probably wouldn't need it. Other countries may have laws that conflict with the "Cookie Law", and others
2015-06-17 18:05:48+0300 < DoctorD90> i understand, infact i asked how to add a popup :D i have just suggested, due to entity of law (all EU, not just 1 town), that maybe should be good add an "easy" popup or similar :D but this was just a tip! :D sorry!
2015-06-17 18:05:58+0300 < teward> you can thank Mikaela for my waking up on this - the github issue opening caught my attention
2015-06-17 18:06:59+0300 < DoctorD90> yea, but being an entire community, (EU) maybe is possible (i dont know eh!) add a line in config to make a popup telling about using of cookie :)
2015-06-17 18:07:05+0300 < DoctorD90> but, this was just a tip :D
2015-06-17 18:07:40+0300 < DoctorD90> because i have "some" little skill, and i may add a simple popup. Other people may not have them, and they dont use your great software :)
2015-06-17 18:08:26+0300 < teward> indeed
2015-06-17 18:08:43+0300 < teward> DoctorD90: note I made a comment on the issue that Mikaela opened on this, #976. Because I can, and I like voicing opinions
2015-06-17 18:08:43+0300 < ZNC-Linker> https://github.com/znc/znc/issues/976 “Webadmin breaks The Cookie Law” (open)
2015-06-17 18:09:13+0300 < DoctorD90> eh...im learning github xD ...but im going to read it :D
2015-06-17 18:10:51+0300 < DoctorD90> btw, it requires just a simple popup :P nothing more :D ...i havent heared about "warning of cookie usage is agains the law" in any country :P
2015-06-17 18:11:47+0300 < DoctorD90> so if with 1 popup may "come back" legal in a community, and not in a single country, maybe it may be good :D or better...this is my way of thinking :)
2015-06-17 18:12:24+0300 < DoctorD90> Mikaela may you get out DoctorD90 from issue, and puts github account directly?
2015-06-17 18:12:41+0300 < DoctorD90> (yes i have created it many times ago xD)
2015-06-17 18:12:57+0300 < Mikaela> DoctorD90: if you tell me what is your github account
2015-06-17 18:13:28+0300 < DoctorD90> <<<<
2015-06-17 18:13:36+0300 < Mikaela> ok
2015-06-17 18:13:39+0300 < DoctorD90> i copy you :D https://github.com/DoctorD90
2015-06-17 18:13:50+0300 < DoctorD90> i have remembered pass :D
```
<!-- github-comment-id:112839586 -->
as i remarked, warn about Cookie Usage in other country, i dont think it i against the rule. EU is not a little country, and i think there are also many other people that use znc in EU, and if they are not skilled, they cant use/share znc due to this exagerated law....
I remark, is not my fault that this law exists :P
as i remarked, warn about Cookie Usage in other country, i dont think it i against the rule. EU is not a little country, and i think there are also many other people that use znc in EU, and if they are not skilled, they cant use/share znc due to this exagerated law....
I remark, is not my fault that this law exists :P
<!-- github-comment-id:112847704 -->
I'm also going to remark similar to my earlier comment that it is not ZNC's fault the law exists either - and as ZNC is open-source software and not a EU company, they are not bound to enforce the law within ZNC - adding a popup just to comply with EU law is still changing ZNC to abide by a certain country's law, whereas that law wouldn't apply to, say, USA or other countries.
(The tradeoff between legal regulation enforcement and not infringing on user experience is a fine line, so there's no need for ZNC to actually follow the rules for the EU and provide a popup. You can also achieve that with JavaScript, and can just add that to the themes for your own ZNC instance, if you really wanted to, which then makes ZNC not have to change)
I'm also going to remark similar to my earlier comment that it is not ZNC's fault the law exists either - and as ZNC is open-source software and not a EU company, they are not bound to enforce the law within ZNC - adding a popup just to comply with EU law is still changing ZNC to abide by a certain country's law, whereas that law wouldn't apply to, say, USA or other countries.
(The tradeoff between legal regulation enforcement and not infringing on user experience is a fine line, so there's no need for ZNC to actually follow the rules for the EU and provide a popup. You can also achieve that with JavaScript, and can just add that to the themes for your own ZNC instance, if you really wanted to, which then makes ZNC not have to change)
<!-- github-comment-id:112855960 -->
These cookie popups are the most annoying things in EU websites.
ZNC certainly should not show them, especially as ZNC easily can be run outside of EU.
That said, I'm not going to do anything with this myself.
However, if someone wants to provide a new skin with that text, I can merge it under some conditions, including (but probably not limited to):
Keep changes (overrides) to default skin at minimum
Name of skin should clearly say that it's for EU cookies shit
No way it goes to default
No popups, plain text should be enough, and it's less annoying than popup
The message should be easily disableable by user's custom CSS or e.g. AdBlock. I hope there is some common CSS class for this cookie nonsense for easy hiding it?
These cookie popups are the most annoying things in EU websites.
ZNC certainly should not show them, especially as ZNC easily can be run outside of EU.
That said, I'm not going to do anything with this myself.
However, if someone wants to provide a new skin with that text, I can merge it under some conditions, including (but probably not limited to):
- Keep changes (overrides) to default skin at minimum
- Name of skin should clearly say that it's for EU cookies shit
- No way it goes to default
- No popups, plain text should be enough, and it's less annoying than popup
- The message should be easily disableable by user's custom CSS or e.g. AdBlock. I hope there is some common CSS class for this cookie nonsense for easy hiding it?
<!-- github-comment-id:112973684 -->
Yea, popup are very annoying...considering that cookie used by znc are "technical" in the law's way of view, so it is asked to only warn users, a plain text is the best strategy....i have edited the "index.tmpl" of webskins, added a new line unde the "welcome" message, and stop.
Maybe a better strategy, for other users, would be adding another "eucookielaw.tmpl", and call it from page "znc's admin" wants; I have edited only with a plain text....and i have solved "my issue" :D
Yea, popup are very annoying...considering that cookie used by znc are "technical" in the law's way of view, so it is asked to only warn users, a plain text is the best strategy....i have edited the "index.tmpl" of webskins, added a new line unde the "welcome" message, and stop.
Maybe a better strategy, for other users, would be adding another "eucookielaw.tmpl", and call it from page "znc's admin" wants; I have edited only with a plain text....and i have solved "my issue" :D
<!-- github-comment-id:113062540 -->
user‑input cookies (session-id) such as first‑party cookies to keep track of the user's input when filling online forms, shopping carts, etc., for the duration of a session or persistent cookies limited to a few hours in some cases
authentication cookies, to identify the user once he has logged in, for the duration of a session
(the linked PDF also covers "remember me" situations ie authentication past the duration of a session - search for "remember")
...as such, I think the ZNC webmin is exempt from requiring notification anyway, as are most websites not using either analytics or adverts.
l looked into this for my own website
http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm
> Cookies clearly exempt from consent according to the [EU advisory body on data protection- WP29.pdf](http://ec.europa.eu/justice/data-protection/article-29/documentation/opinion-recommendation/files/2012/wp194_en.pdf) include:
> - **user‑input** cookies (session-id) such as first‑party cookies to keep track of the user's input when filling online forms, shopping carts, etc., for the duration of a session or persistent cookies limited to a few hours in some cases
> - **authentication** cookies, to identify the user once he has logged in, for the duration of a session
(the linked PDF also covers "remember me" situations ie authentication past the duration of a session - search for "remember")
...as such, I think the ZNC webmin is exempt from requiring notification anyway, as are most websites not using either analytics or adverts.
<!-- github-comment-id:115644051 -->
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via @DoctorD90.
👎
The moment ZNC (which can technically be considered a framework) starts abiding by one country's laws, it must start abiding by all of them. You can then run into legal hell, conflicting laws, conflicting rules, etc.
If it is requested to have a specific law be followed, then those who use ZNC can modify it to listen to that law. I don't think that ZNC should change its functionality just to conform to the EU law, when there would be no law in the US or other regions (as an example).
Logs:
as i remarked, warn about Cookie Usage in other country, i dont think it i against the rule. EU is not a little country, and i think there are also many other people that use znc in EU, and if they are not skilled, they cant use/share znc due to this exagerated law....
I remark, is not my fault that this law exists :P
I'm also going to remark similar to my earlier comment that it is not ZNC's fault the law exists either - and as ZNC is open-source software and not a EU company, they are not bound to enforce the law within ZNC - adding a popup just to comply with EU law is still changing ZNC to abide by a certain country's law, whereas that law wouldn't apply to, say, USA or other countries.
(The tradeoff between legal regulation enforcement and not infringing on user experience is a fine line, so there's no need for ZNC to actually follow the rules for the EU and provide a popup. You can also achieve that with JavaScript, and can just add that to the themes for your own ZNC instance, if you really wanted to, which then makes ZNC not have to change)
👍
As said in channel, this is what im doing :) Im adding some line in webskin :) that was only a tip
These cookie popups are the most annoying things in EU websites.
ZNC certainly should not show them, especially as ZNC easily can be run outside of EU.
That said, I'm not going to do anything with this myself.
However, if someone wants to provide a new skin with that text, I can merge it under some conditions, including (but probably not limited to):
Yea, popup are very annoying...considering that cookie used by znc are "technical" in the law's way of view, so it is asked to only warn users, a plain text is the best strategy....i have edited the "index.tmpl" of webskins, added a new line unde the "welcome" message, and stop.
Maybe a better strategy, for other users, would be adding another "eucookielaw.tmpl", and call it from page "znc's admin" wants; I have edited only with a plain text....and i have solved "my issue" :D
l looked into this for my own website
http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm
(the linked PDF also covers "remember me" situations ie authentication past the duration of a session - search for "remember")
...as such, I think the ZNC webmin is exempt from requiring notification anyway, as are most websites not using either analytics or adverts.
Closing based on the previous comment.